Why I'm no longer a Republican and for banning guns

[Paul]

Until you need one to save yourself or a loved one.

How many loved ones use guns to end their lives? When I was a kid, I had two different neighbors shoot their loved ones during arguments.

[13511]

How many use pills or vehicles? When I was a cop I worked (in one year) 3 that drove into bridge supports and one off a bridge and into a river. I can't tell you the number I went out on where it was suicide by pill.. but it was WAY more than suicide by gun.

I've also worked calls where

Girlfriend killed boyfriend with a well-placed steak knife to the heart

Girlfriend ran over boyfriend with truck

Boyfriend strangled girlfriend.

Boyfriend beat girlfriend and her bed partner to death with a baseball bat.

 

The cry of tyrants everywhere "It's for your own protection".

[Paul]

Someone who overdoses on any drug has better chance of surviving than someone who puts the barrel of a handgun in their mouth and pulls the trigger.

[13511]

Oh really... tell me exactly HOW that is when you take 30 barbies and your home for 5 hours alone? How ya' gonna get help?

And actually.. putting the gun in mouth is the best way to survive (albeit brain damaged most likely). Want to do it right, you put the muzzle behind the top of the ear lobe.

[Paul]

Oh really... tell me exactly HOW that is when you take 30 barbies and your home for 5 hours alone? How ya' gonna get help?

How many people are taken to a hospital (still alive) every year after overdosing on a drug?

 

How many people are taken to a hospital (still alive) every year after shooting themselves in the head?

 

This is an interesting article about suicides by guns, which was published today Why The Most Common Type Of Gun Death Rarely Gets Mentioned

 

BTW, I'm not completely against gun ownership, I have owned plenty of them myself. What drives me to say "ban them all" is when gun owners wont allow common sense laws to be passed. Someone on a no fly list shouldn't have access to a gun.

[13511]

I've accompanied several on ambulance rides that were shot in the head and survived (with pistols - the ones that used a HP rifle or shotgun invariably were DAS)... and most times when you have one OD by pills, they do it alone (you know, those pills don't make a loud bang as you swallow them).

 

As for number of deaths - I'll leave this hanging for comment

DEA Acting Administrator Chuck Rosenberg today announced results from the 2015 National Drug Threat Assessment (NDTA), which found that drug overdose deaths are the leading cause of injury death in the United States, ahead of deaths from motor vehicle accidents and firearms. In 2013, more than 46,000 people in the United States died from a drug overdose and more than half of those were caused by prescription painkillers and heroin.

 

We need to ban all those nasty old prescription drugs and lifetime felony record for those caught with any heroin derivative.. look at the harm they are doing to our poor society. :weary_face:

 

What drives me to say "ban them all" is when gun owners wont allow common sense laws to be passed. Someone on a no fly list shouldn't have access to a gun.

My issue with that... do you know exactly what it takes to BE on a no-fly list? Last time I checked, the requirements on how one was placed on it were deemed "prohibited for release" information. And trying to find IF you are on it.. good luck, they aren't required to release that info to you (it's optional for them to)... and if you DO happen to find out you are on one, there is no way to appeal it.

 

EDIT:

 

Even the ACLU has problems with it

Because of the extreme secrecy surrounding the No Fly List, people generally only discover that they are on it when they are denied boarding on a flight – often very publicly, at the airport. The public does not know how many people are on the No Fly List, and the criteria for inclusion are so broad and vague that they inevitably ensnare innocent people engaged in First Amendment-protected speech, activity, or association. The process the government has established for people on the No Fly List to challenge their blacklisting is grossly insufficient and violates the U.S. Constitution's due process guarantee. The ACLU and its affiliates in Oregon, Southern California, Northern California, and New Mexico are challenging that process in court.

What To Do If You Think You're on a No-Fly List

Edited July 1, 2016 by 13511

[SneakyDave]

@Paul, you need some meat in your system, and then you'll see how wrong you are. :eyes:

[13511]

Just a few more stats

In 2013 alone, 468,749 watch-list nominations were submitted to the National Counterterrorism Center. It rejected only 1 percent of the recommendations.

7 Ways That You (Yes, You) Could End Up On A Terrorist Watch List

 

Just to give you an idea of what some of the BS stuff that can get you on it (some listed in above link also)

8 ways you can end up on the no-fly list | Fox News

 

And in the last 5 years.. 1.5 MILLION people added

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/terrorist-database-continues-grow-rapid-rate

And from that article

The Alexandria case follows a ruling last month by a federal judge in Oregon that found people placed on the list have no adequate means to challenge their status. She ordered the government to develop a better means for seeking redress from placement on the list. The government has not yet decided whether to appeal that ruling.

so apparently even some courts have issues with it.

[Paul]

The no fly list is a bad example.

 

We shouldn't look the other way with people who haven't done anything bad yet, if they have been doing things to suggest that they will.

[Sheldon]

Did you all realize Turkey has a ban on assault weapon ownership? AK-47's are not allowed to be privately owned. They also have very stringent background checks of people who want to own any firearms.

 

Surprises me the terrorist|criminal didn't follow that law before running into the airport.

 

Oh wait, THEY DON'T FOLLOW THE LAW. Hence the term criminal.

 

Doesn't matter if they are banned or not, they'll get them if they want them. The banning of assault rifles did nothing for them.

[13511]

The real issue is that the real gun grabbers want ALL the guns removed from public hands. They think that all that power should be in the hands of the government alone and any privately owned firearm should be made into porch swings and chop sticks.

[Micah]

As a republican(shocker), I am not against total ban of guns. But limiting how many and what type of guns should be brought. I am for stricter requirements to get guns including strong mental evaluation and drug testing as well.

 

People say guns don't kill. People kill....but then say they want a gun to feel safe. That argument can't be used to discredit gun violence while trying to prop up gun's being tools for protection. Guns in the right hand can safe a life but in the wrong hands can take a life. We need not to focus on so much banning guns totally (which seems to do well for some countries) but abandoning this old ideology of our 'constitutional right' and preventing easy access for individuals to get these guns.

Guns don't kill. People do.

 

And are lax laws, our resistance for stronger gun control, our instilling in an early age of our kids that guns are okay by placing them in their hands so they can hunting with Pop and Paw paw are merely enabling these people more.

[13511]

Why are there so many cities in other countries without the gun or drug issues we have in cities of similar size?

A lot of it is societal.

[13511]

That argument can't be used to discredit gun violence while trying to prop up gun's being tools for protection

Yes, it can. Because the gun doesn't come running out of the closet/cupboard/drawer when it's needed. It takes a HUMAN hand to operate it.

Guns in the right hand can safe a life but in the wrong hands can take a life

Which you acknowledge right here. There was a time when the NRA was allowed to teach firearms safety courses in school. Of course, that was done away with because "firearms are bad" brigade didn't want their kids learning about those scary, deadly devices <yes, I'm being sarcastic>.

but abandoning this old ideology of our 'constitutional right' and preventing easy access for individuals to get these guns.

What other rights that are guaranteed society are you also willing to give up.

The 1st, the 4th, the 18th?

 

Got a rocket scientist idea.. why don't we actively enforce the laws that are on the books that were there to criminalize crimes involving the firearms. In Texas we have laws that are firearm specific - but usually they get plead down to exclude that (because it adds more time automatically to the sentence). Cease that behavior, put a price <physical not monetary> on it and you'll find one of 2 things most likely happen.

Those that are scared of paying the price will quit doing it... those that aren't will just start using the weapon to prevent being caught - resulting in an increasing death rate.

We need not to focus on so much banning guns totally

If you ask a lot of the liberals that want "restrictions" this is actually their ultimate goal. I'm NOT saying all of them, but several that are outspoken and in positions of influence have this goal in mind.

[13511]

Ask an Australian if they feel oppressed by their government, they'll probably laugh at you.

Maybe they like having items forcibly (threat of jail) confiscated... but I don't think you will have much luck with that in the US.... and yes, it was a confiscation. They weren't given a choice on their gun buy-back program.

Obama Praises Australia's Gun Confiscation, by Charles C. W. Cooke, National Review

The Australia Gun Control Fallacy

Australia’s 1996 Gun Confiscation Didn’t Work – And it Wouldn’t Work in America

 

And yes, those might be classified as "right wing" sources - but you know what... no matter the "source", facts are facts. if you are FORCED into something, it's not voluntary and it's nothing short of a confiscation.

[1up]

Maybe they like having items forcibly (threat of jail) confiscated... but I don't think you will have much luck with that in the US.

 

You'd end up with a bunch of dead people, and that's why it hasn't been attempted yet.

[tajhay]

I live in Aus(New Zealander though) and am married to an American(Wash DC) and have been to the USA countless times, amongst 50 other countries.

 

We do have guns, however they are extremely rare. Retards are not able to get guns. Infact most people cannot and chances are you wont meet anyone who has even seen one(unless you come across an american tourist ;))The chances of hearing about a shootout or someone getting robbed at gunpoint is rare. Even our rifle ranges have guns secured against wires so they cannot be pointed elsewhere.

 

Not here to tell you guys what you should do, but banning guns or having a far tighter control on them would certainly help. Cannot see it happening due to the power the NRA have over there.

 

Ask my wife where she would rather live without fear of walking alone at night(im travelling right now so she has been alone in Sydney) and she would say Aus before you would be able to finish the question. I would assume we have a far lower crime rate as well though. Personally, some of the stuff ive seen there in broad daylight is crazy.

[SneakyDave]

Paul, was the gun issue the main thing that made you leave the Republican party? What made/makes you more Republican than Democrat, or something else?

[Paul]

Paul, was the gun issue the main thing that made you leave the Republican party? What made/makes you more Republican than Democrat, or something else?

Neither party will give an inch for the good of the people if it's something that goes against their side, even if everyone knows it's something that is needed. The gun issue is just one example. I identify myself as an Independent now.

[SneakyDave]

And now these goddamn knives have got to go go go!

 

At least 19 dead, dozens injured in knife attack outside Tokyo | Fox News

[Digital Phoenix]

And now these goddamn knives have got to go go go!

 

At least 19 dead, dozens injured in knife attack outside Tokyo | Fox News

 

Called it.

[Paul]

And now these goddamn knives have got to go go go!

This is the thinking I don't understand. Just because someone found another weapon to kill people with, it doesn't mean we shouldn't do anything about something that was specifically designed for the purpose.

[SneakyDave]

Society will be safer without these killing machines Paul

[Sandyman]

Society will be safer without these killing machines Paul

Gotta get rid of the axes too, being used now as weapons.

 

How about treating the people and not blaming the weapons? You'll never get rid of guns in America, better figure out a different way to try and solve this problem.

 

I'd never live in Australia either, too many creatures there capable of killing and eating you.

[Sandyman]

Australian PM denounces treatment at juvenile detention center - CNN.com

 

Sick shit, those guards should pay BIG time.